Growth is occurring so I feel that we need to look at the opportunities for improving the sustainability of the city, when looking at the inner city we need to reduce the impact of buildings and be smarter and actually front up to the challenge of how we go beyond the typical Green Star type building which just reduces the already negative impacts associated with development (which is a good thing). How do we get buildings and streets designed and constructed so that they start actually cleaning the air, holding and naturally filtering water, providing space for people to socialise in a non-commercialised way and adding back to the wider ecology.

I hopeful that this plan will provide a platform for Council, State Government, Business and Community to work together to really think through these major issues facing us and turn development around so that it is a positive contributor to a sustainable future for us all.

Numerous big decisions need to be made to address the future of Brisbane.  The blue print will have not only address the next 20 years but 100 years plus.

Decisions on public transport and the removal of cars from the city centre have to be made. The plan must include a subway system for trains. Not only a loop around the city centre, but from other access points. Any increase to the rail system needs to think of cross linking and not be Brisbane city centric. This is one of the only ways that will address the expected 250K+ people influx to the city centre. 

The river is the central hub of the city and should be embraced. Unfortunately, the river limits the city. Future governments need to be mindful of these limitations and plan accordingly. The future plan needs to include the river as the central theme. As many crossings as possible, but not in the form of Bridges and the reliance on the car. The plan should also include plans for the number of people that commute through the city on their way to work. The plan needs to be mindful, that if 250K+ people are expected in the city, how many will commute through the city.  By providing alternate public infrastructure that doesn't go through the city and crosses the river, the city centre will be a more hospitable space.

These are just a few thoughts that may assist in discussion.

And your own website suggests where the problem lies.

"The city centre that the Blueprint covers is six per cent of the area of Brisbane, yet it accommodates 25% of residents and 50% of jobs."

The strong answer to the problem is to decentralize the city and create satellite destinations outside of the cbd.(25km out)

You could compare this to the state problem of trying to jamb everyone into the S.E corner of the state.

Wake up - before it is too late.

Not so many years ago when we still had a lovely inner suburb called Woolloongabba - where there were small strip shops of local character, a bustling community retail and entertainment precinct - it was a destination - it had life that worked at human scale.....people interacted...had coffee...did some shopping etc. Fast forward to today - We now have a Woolloongabba that on a road map....is as difficult to negotiate on  a roadmap as it is on foot. You have to walk across 100m of tarseal between road islands, or navigate around the inner busway system, or cross one of a number of bridges to get from one side of the suburb to the other. Woolloongabba is now a "through-way" full of motorway bi-passes, overhead bridges, bus tunnels to move vehicles through and around the CBD. Its only recognisable feature now...is the Gabba - and unless it is your destination where you are in a crowd of people crossing the road en-mass - Woolloongabba is now no longer a place for pedestrians, let alone residents.

Take as another example - what we are witnessing in the north of brisbane....Lutwyche Road through to Chermside. Another looming abortion. This one already has the hallmarks of another wedge ramming into the heart of the CBD - ready to split east from west!  Can someone please answer me - how is this connecting the city?...and adding to the quality of living? How is this making Brisbane's CBD more liveable. I see clearly it will only bring more vehicles to the CBD or through it. The few residential enclaves close to the CBD are being reduced even further, streetscapes are becoming fortifications and the only continuous CBD street life is reduced to 3-4 streets around Queen street. WOW - is this what CBD life is about?!

We were wrong in putting the motorway along the river....and now we are trying to improve the links to our greatest assett.  Why is it that we are doing this? We have also carved the city up with "brilliant ideas" like, the Clem Jones Tunnel - inner northern busway, hale street bi-pass - the new bridge being built at coronation drive to connect to southbank. All I see is more concrete - more cars - more fracturings of a city fabric that is struggling to maintain an identity as a liveable city. The CBD now has limited pedestrian aceessibility due to inner city bypass corridors, major tunnel exits and barriers, the river barrier, the rail corridors. The CBD is now a truely isolated zone.

We should be protecting the special spaces and placeswe have that connect us to our CBD. We should be EXTENDING the ideas of connectivity for PEDESTRIANS - NOT VEHICLES. Vehicles and "transportation" seems to be the icon on the pedestal our councillors and planners are worshipping. Building more roads only puts more cars on roads - it doesnt reduce congestion. Congestion only ends up being a greater problem when the roads you have just built - reach beyond capacity.

So - I keep asking myself as i continue to drive through Brisbane on the never ending series of "roadworks" - what has happened to our city? I am afraid that until we understand the fundamentals of what makes a truely great city "great" -relationships to human scale spaces and actions....like walking and understand the necessity for the permeability and connectivity at pedestrian level and the fundamental understanding of "PLACE" we will continue to fall short.

We must also be wary of PPP relationships. Outcomes that deal in private profits from public money is never in the best interests of the community....you dont have to look further than NSW to see that corporate manipulation and vested interests in otherwise public infrastructure always means the public lose. Moral strength of our politicians needs to be restored in partnership with the community -not the corporations - afterall OUR Council should be there to serve US the public - not minority groups or pander to the promises of action as re-election grandstanding. 

Another fundamental problem is the way in which Local, State and Federal interests overlap their agendas...(inefficiently) or at worst leave gaps in their mandates by concentrating solely on build roads, rail and other infrastructure. It seems that to be spending money is to be seen doing the right thing!!!.. The case of the Ripley Valley (west of brisbane) involving the ICC, Dept Main Roads (DMR) and QT has been eye-opening. Each institution with differing stakeholders, differing financing and political motivations to name a few has meant that community involvement/input has been marginalised as a token gesture. I have had first hand exposure to the workings of our state professional in these areas - the highway out to Ripley (Yamanto) from Springfield was built at break-neck speed!!! - however, community concerns were swept aside for political expediency... afterall the DMR only builds road!!! so they had very little interest in how their roads interfaced with developing communities to their edges..... So - is this (or will this) be any different in Brisbane City?? - I dont think so.  As a community we are left in the end dealing with "how did this happen" - "what could have been done better" etc etc...we even have courses at QUT dealing with "urban re-vitalisation and the question of woolloobagga" - what an irony!!!! We are happier to see this as a curriculum topic than solving the problem!!

The analogy for Brisbane I tell my friends about - is of this city like a block of swiss cheese - there is only so much you can remove before all the holes are connected and you end up with one big hole". We are well on our way!!!

i am glad this forum is now here!...i have been waiting to talk about this issue for so long......and perhaps have some healthy discussion on these issues!!!

Hi Brispete,

Thanks for your interest in the forum you raise a number of good points and questions. 

In regards to your questions:

I actaully drive to work every day and pay for parking as i have two babies and the bus is so crowded it won't allow my pram on it and i physically can't carry 2. I know many other mums who drive for the same reason, maybe if we actually had transport that takes prams in peak hr - we wouldn't need to overload the city with our cars. Which goes back to my first point Buses are not the answer!

On a positive note i think the city cycle is a good idea.

Thanks

Welcome to new contributors and thanks for all of your latest updates.

Brispete has raised some interesting ideas and asked for clarification regarding the River City Blueprint. The River City Blueprint and City Plan (which includes Neighbourhood Plans) are different types of plans. The River City Blueprint is a  non-statutory vision for the long term, while the City Plan is a statutory plan that regulates development.

The Blueprint will bring together the vision that Council and the State Government have for the capital city (5km focus area). This vision is proposed to include sustainable, residential, economic, social, environmental and transport initiatives that will be achieved over the next 20 to 50 years. The Blueprint encourages Council, State Government and Brisbane's residents, workers and users of the city to think long term about planning and infrastructure in line with recent Federal Government expectations.

Long term planning is important as large infrastructure and plans take a long time to complete. For example, a network of busways for Brisbane was first proposed in 1995. Six years passed before the first busway opened (South East), then another seven years passed before the first stage of the Northern Busway was open. Completion of the full network could take another 20 years, totalling in 35 years of work.

In contrast the City Plan is a statutory document that does not have the ability to include visions or guide implementation. Therefore the Blueprint will be used to broadly guide the outcomes in City Plan and future Neighbourhood Plans for the inner 5km and implement the statutory elements. As a non-statutory plan the Blueprint will be reviewed regularly and amended as required so that it does not become outdated.

How many years do you think the River City Blueprint should consider?

Thanks

Rebecca
City Planning

We've got to decentralise our city - take the pressure off transport - give people reasons to live, work and play in the suburbs - bring culture and improved lifestyles to areas desperately needing more people, activities and meeting places (in whatever form they take). 

When focusing on the areas within 5km of the city we should be looking at ways to reduce the tension and stress,  not squeeze more people in by putting them in cheap "future-slum" highrises and wonder why there are increasing crime problems.

Some will argue that city dwellers live closer to their city jobs, therefore reducing traffic.  As a long term resident of Kangaroo Point I can assure you that many renters are moving to the centre for the party-hard lifestyle, not their jobs.  They're often driving to the suburbs for work and coming home to the city for more booze and partying.  Lives are being wasted while we pretend we're building a cosmopolitan lifestyle.

I'm not saying the city centre shouldn't be populated,  but we need to consider who is living here,  what they are doing with their time,  what the venues pubs/clubs and restaurants offer, and how we can improve lives, not just "keep development moving".

There needs to be a ring road at least 5 kms outside the City if there is ever to be any chance of reducing the city traffic and the congestion it brings.

Interstate travellers from the southern states would welcome NOT having to go through Brisbane to get to say, Cairns, Daintree or the Sunshine Coast.  (Remember when the RACQ used to have to guide tourists and travellers through Brisbane to the northside?) Well, the situation has not changed.  The roads ALL lead to the City. What more can I say?  Stand back and LOOK at the big picture!

Sue B

I am lucky - i take the city cat to the city every day and never drive in, i also have the option of a Bus from our street  - but it does take a long time (eg 40 mins extra each way each day).....if i had a spare car to use it would become very tempting.  To cycle takes a long time as you can only cross the river at the Story or after, a cycle / foot bridge at this end of the river with suitable cycle access through teneriffe would get you into the city in less than  20 mins, and almost make it possible to go "slowly" on the bike, and avoid the reqt for showers etc at the other end, which is a pain but do-able.

Tunnels are a good idea....

Having moved to Brisbane 2 yrs ago, i would add though that i am impressed by both the level of infrastructure activity underway and the open-ness of BCC and its efforts.

Cheers.

Thanks for sharing

We have had some great comments on ring roads, metro systems and ferries, reducing tension and stress, as well as the importance of green public spaces through this first discussion topic. Your discussion points are helping our planners as they review current plans and investigate new options. We invite you to refine your thoughts and make further posts in the new Bright Ideas topic thread.

We also invite you to come and visit one of our fun interactive Bright Ideas displays (photo below) and meet our team and map out your thoughts.

Displays are currently in place in the following locations until 11 March 2010:

• State Library, Infozone, 11am-3pm
• Royal Brisbane Hospital, 2nd story cafe foyer, 10am - 2pm
• Brisbane Square Library, Entrance foyer, 10-2pm 

Future displays are scheduled to be held in Fortitude Valley, QUT Gardens Point and Kelvin Grove, Gardens City with others spaces being negotiated. Details will be updated on the River City Blueprint web pages.

Regards, Glenn.

BCC - Glenn

From the standpoint of "Western" values (which is how most of us live in Australian cities including Brisbane), we have placed the Economy at the top of our list of priorities hence we create linear arguements which go something like this (for example)

Efficient markets (the economy) can be acheived by concentration of resources (Human and material resources) into one location which in turn leads to efficient production and distribution.  

This is why cities exist. They were intended for this purpose. Individuals gravitate to them because that's where trade, work and income exist (most of the time) and the weight of numbers and, arguably, this efficiency allows Governments (and sometimes 'the Market') to distribute services (Health, Education, Law enforcement). 

However what we need to recognise is that transport policy, although argued along environmental/liveability lines, is primarily about production efficiency (getting the people and material resources to the production site). The more private users are removed from the roads the more fuel and road space available for the efficient delivery of material goods. (and as a side issue pollution is reduced, air quality and population health improved, further improving production efficiency)

This may seem like I'm painting a negative picture here, on the contrary, I like work, I believe it is part of the human condition, getting to work quickly and efficiently allows me to do this and is a good thing and I look forward to the completion of the Northern Busway for this reason.   

But ..... If I'm not driven by spending (I don't need to be near major shopping centres), promotion and increasing my income (I could work anywhere) and I maintain reasonable health (I'm not reliant on government services), can I do what I do outside the city or from home (don't need to use transport facilities) and if I want to be involved in communal activities do I need to do these in a city (sporting , social clubs, churches etc do exist elsewhere).  

These thoughts go directly to the question of concentration of resources.  

These questions steps back from the detail and look more fundamentally at the nature of society, work, and in Brisbane's case what production roles generally, and as individuals or groups of individuals, really need to to be concentrated in this city within the 5km / 10km radius and how does our work contribute to the environment.   

For example much services industry work is carried out by email or outsourcing we see for example online education as a prime example. Does this suggest that working remotely is more efficient than self drive or public transport to a concentrated location (I believe office buildings will be the dinosaurs of the 21st century)?  Does this mean the City Centre transforms to primarily accommodation, entertainment and education?  Less time spent using transport systems and more time to spend within your local area could build stronger communities?

On the question of the work roles in society for example, I observed three builders gaining an adequate income working in a remote town in the Kimberley in WA with a population of 5,500 people, why then is it necessary for any builder in Brisbane to travel all over the city to gain employment, tradesman do exactly the same thing and we need to rethink the efficiency or lack of efficiency and ask questions about the fragmentation of our communities that allows these work practices to exist.  So in business how can we behave commercially that will allow us to work more locally and reduce our necessity for cross town travel? To me it suggest that community engagement activities by Council need to include small business to community relationships. Can lack of mobility in this case also be a good thing in building trust and reciprocity between businesses and the local community?

These examples are just snapshots of course but, in their way, might assist the thinking about with the reduction of our ecological footprint (which could be an expanded topic that I have not dwelt on in any detail), and hopefully add to the debate about our city centre.   

A bit of a rant on my part and a bit for you all to digest, so good luck and I look forward to your responses

cheers

Ric      

The biggest issue for Brisbane transport is the reliance on a model that takes all commuters into the centre of a crowded city before taking them to their end destination. Try getting from Toowong to St Lucia - you need to go in to the city to go out again! By making the journey slower it encourages people to use their cars. Far types also don't encourage trip chaining. For example, mums who pick up kids, buy groceries, take kids to after school activities and then go home are better off using cars no matter how close the distance due to the cost of public trasnport for multiple journeys.

Tokyo have also got lost of bridges - not big costly ones across the river but smaller ones. Singapore and other large cities have the same. Again this eases the congestion by removing choke points in the main transport corridors. Brisbane needs more bridges that combine pedestrian and car traffic that allows linkages between the north and south of the river and encourages flow between shopping and residential areas.

Big costly tunnels will only work where there is large volumes of traffic to pay for the costs. But they only work in moving volumes of vehicles not in creating livability in the suburbs they bypass or their start and end points.

The Brisbane City Centre Master Plan makes mention of a pedestrian bridge linking the CBD to Kangaroo Point, along with one from New Farm to Kangaroo Point. I was wondering if anyone knew the status of these proposals as I believe they're a must.

Reducing traffic.

Walking and cycling will have the residents not only financially better off but in some cases cut down commuting time and promote a more active lifestyle.

The dependence on transport, CityCat, Buses won't be as prominent in these areas. 

They will also further support/encourage further development in these areas.

Would like to hear your opinions

Cheers

Kym

We're trying to minimise the number of topics, please post pics in this thread.

Thanks,

David
RCB team member